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Forum:Discussion: Stricter Page Creation Guidelines
I have been speaking to Bunai82 about this topic so I will just copy paste a bit of what I spoke to her about. I've been looking around fanloid wiki and half the time I'm not sure what I'm looking at. I see some pages with what looked like hard worked on fanloids, and then other pages where it look like someone got a 4 year old to draw their fanloids with crayons. Not just the images but the lack of descriptions as well... I don't know if I have any right to say this, but I wanted to petition to have stricter page creation guidelines. I don't think it's fair to let every utau user and their little brother have a fanloid page. That would get cluttered too fast and hard to document. What do you think? I don't mean to be mean to anyone specifically, but I will just give links to pages that I think help illustrate my point. RenaKerensky_Kuromine_Twins.jpg Monty1st_Hatsune_Uttori.jpg These are just recolors. And while I have nothing against recolors I also believe that a fanloid should be more than just purely a recolor. I would like to talk about guidelines that would help urge against JUST recolors (Otherwise we'll have Miku and Kaito fanloids from every spectrum of the rainbow documented on this site) Where as images like this Lilkk4321_Lukia_Megurine.jpg Koolkid_Kafurine_Rushi.jpg Are just poorly drawn. I would like this sort of work seriously discouraged on this site. I understand a lot of beginning MMD users are super excited to create their own fanloid and I'm totally open to this site being so liberal with it's policies and letting everyone post pages, but I would also like this site to be true to it's name and be an encyclopedia and not an advertising gimmick for people's new recolored fanmades. I'm super sorry if I was mean and/or insulting in this post. I'm just very frustrated and that's exactly why I'm starting this forum topic per Bunai82's suggestion. Let's talk about it and about more guidelines. Bloodyvocaloid 10:08, May 4, 2012 (UTC) Original talk page discussion Stricter Page Creation Guidelines Hi Bunai. I've been looking around fanloid wiki and half the time I'm not sure what I'm looking at. I see some pages with what looked like hard worked on fanloids, and then other pages where it look like someone got a 4 year old to draw their fanloids with crayons. Not just the images but the lack of descriptions as well... I don't know if I have any right to say this, but I wanted to petition to have stricter page creation guidelines. I don't think it's fair to let every utau user and their little brother have a fanloid page. That would get cluttered too fast and hard to document. What do you think? Perhaps we could talk about it and work something out? Bloodyvocaloid 08:48, May 1, 2012 (UTC) :Believe me, I know, but thank you for your concern. :This wiki has a 'Manual of Style', but it also allows Users to maintain a page as they wish. Though there are exceptions, for example when the page looks like it was done by someone who has no idea of wikitext. I'll be going through the pages and making the proper layouts, but it is tough trying to keep it when the creator reverts it. :If you can create a forum topic and point out pages that bothered you in particular, that would give some focus. -- Bunai82 (talk) 14:35, May 1, 2012 (UTC) :I love the fact that this wikia is so open to everybody, but that in itself is dangerous. As long as they have good wiki text and don't steal anyone else's art, anyone can have a fancharacter. I mean while that sounds so admirable, that also is the reason that there are 10 billion Shion brothers. Because anyone can just choose any hue of color and just palet swap Kaito. I really don't want to see this wiki documenting every single recoloring of Kaito/ Miku/ Luka/ etc.. Could there be some way to make a new rule saying that simple color swaps are not allowed. Or that the character must have this amount of view on Youtube/DeviantArt/NicoNicoDouga? Things like that? :I think I may start a forum topic in the future. Thank you for the suggestion. :Bloodyvocaloid 21:59, May 1, 2012 (UTC) ::To the last part of your post, this definitely would be best as a forum discussion or a blog, which ever is comfortable for you. Then I can announce it as site news. ::As it's already known, many derivatives are based on Crypton characters, so naturally there are a lot of them. Even in the Japanese fandom this continues and Crypton's Kaito and Miku are the favored as derivative bases. I personally don't mind direct derivatives of official Vocaloids. When it comes to fanart there is a rule on recolors, it isn't allowed. The exceptions are doll bases and using official boxart as that is fairuse without profit. If someone has permission from the artist about artwork alteration then it is fine. ::Many artists don't mind derivative base work, but do have an issue with recoloring without permission. ::The reason for Fanloid wiki is to document characters that could never have a page on Vocaloid wiki. Many of the fanmade pages created were deleted because the characters were "not notable / not popular / unknown" etc. Also after a while the amount of fanmades compared to official information was overwhelming. I don't want to borrow the Vocaloid wiki rule about 'how a character must be known' in order for them to have a page, because without the creator spamming all over the internet or being a decent artist, they would never have the the amount of views that would warrant a page. ::The only time I have deleted pages was when the creator of the page did not expand on anything, even description. So I moved them to proposed. ::For example, Mikuo is the most basic derivative, it's just Miku with short hair and pants. There isn't anything to the character besides the mention of gender. Yet it became one of the most popular derivatives, it serves its purpose being an avatar. Also, I am taking some inspiration from the Japanese site 'Vocaloid Character dictionary', it simply has stats of the character with a very brief summary. No detailed backstory or real purpose, since most fanmades are primarily about design rather than development. -- Bunai82 (talk) 00:58, May 2, 2012 (UTC) :::Thank you very much for the long reply. I understand a lot of what you are saying, but we can discuss it a lot more in detail on the forum. I just started a new topic as per your suggestion~! :::Bloodyvocaloid 10:10, May 4, 2012 (UTC) Comments To edit in this section, please click Edit. To comment to the new issue. I'd much rather have (what is subjected to be) poorly drawn original artwork, rather than hue changed recolors of someone's fanart. As the image policy states, this site encourages and favors users who do original artwork rather than recoloring. However, commissions and doll bases are fine as I am aware that people don't trust their own skills, don't have a scanner, or can not produce work using a computer program alone. Another part of the image policy is that official boxart is considered fairuse and therefore allowed to be altered. Because the companies are aware of derivative work of their product. I view the boxart recolors and doll bases as temporary, but if they are not, then I have nothing against them. I will never tell someone they have to be (or hire) a professional artist in order for their character illustration to be placed in an infobox. Many derivatives found within the Japanese fandom are not done by skilled artists, they are done by fans who simply like to design Vocaloid characters. And I always try to find the original work, and place the fanart in the gallery. I am also doing this for Juon and Zatsune, since the current artwork for them is fanart. -- Bunai82 (talk) 12:01, May 4, 2012 (UTC) i understand that my fanloid was just a recolour but it's really hard to draw/make a fanloid and besides i don't want to come off annoying or anything but i have see maney others do this so i thought it was ok? --Monty1st 03:00, May 5, 2012 (UTC) I totally understand what you're trying to say. While poorly drawn images and articles without images annoy me, I think that they can be made up for with a vivid description. However, if artists realize that their artwork is not too great, I think they should at least try to find an experienced artist or use a doll base. And yes, I do think that this wiki should have a policy against recolors. We already have Miku and Kaito in every color known to man, we don't need Rin, Len, Luka, Gumi, and every other VOCALOID out there rainbow-ized as well. Before long, 99% percent of the fanloid community will be recolors, and what we don't want is the wiki being dominated by recolors. --MitsuSaire00 20:07, May 9, 2012 (UTC) In regards to Monty1st's comment. Making a fanloid is more about changing colors. Yes, I understand lots of people do it. I would like to discourage against it, which is exactly what this topic is about. Drawing is quite hard I understand. But there are lots of very skilled artists out there who I'm sure would be happy to help you with a cool idea if you discussed it with them ^__^ --Bloodyvocaloid (talk) 02:28, July 15, 2012 (UTC) I agree with Bloodyvocaloid on the whole recolor thing. In the early days of fanmade characters, recolors were perfectly acceptable. But times change, and recolors are now considered unoriginal and lazy. If you've decided that your character is really just going to be Miku in a different color, you should try to make your own artwork. And if you're only making a recolor because you know that you're a poor artsist, then you can either find a better artist to draw your character for you, use a doll base, or use MMD to make a model for your character. Monty, please use proper conventions when writing a post. Which looks more official: Hi, my name is MitsuSaire00. You can call me KokoA. Or.. hi my name is mitsusaire00 you can call me kokoa. I don't want to be harsh, but other users will see you as somewhat of a joke if you continue to write like this. KokoA (talk) 16:46, July 15, 2012 (UTC) Hello, my name is Kogorami. I work hard on my paintings, and have my own line of vocaloid (かわいい女の子). I hope you enjoy my work. But I agree with all of you. I mean, I post my Yuuki Yamagishi, right below is a crayon-coloured drawing with no sense of line-art. I end up getting link to Mikuaboos, SeeUaboos, weeaboos, and koreaboos. What even. Kogorami 8:37 PM, August 6, 2012